It's kinda crazy how don't recognize the power of anybody besides government to limit our freedom, until they get kicked off @twitter and @youtube. But then they never apply that lesson to other corporations.

@wjmaggos That's pretty broad. I'd call myself a small-l libertarian -- who is here, and not there...

There are plenty of stupid libertarians, but then, there are plenty of stupid people, so it logically follows.

Snowden revelations were 5 years ago, and people still buy smartphones. Stupid is well and broadly distributed. It is perhaps the fiber of the material universe itself, it is so pervasive and omnipresent.

@jeremiah I should have said most. We're all hypocrites to some degree. I love a good argument and think "freedom" broadly defined is part of a good life, so I love my libertarian brothers and sisters. But all ideologies are limited and utopias non existent, and we could all do better at applying our ideas to real world examples.

@wjmaggos That presumes libertarian is a goal-state, rather than a philosophy.

From my perspective, the fundamental binary in the universe are those what want to be left alone, and those what won't leave them alone.

That's best expressed as libertarianism, minarchism, some flavors of anarchism. The problem, which you anticipate, is that much of the same (like libertarians) are cretins of the first order who could not conceive of their utopias faced by the reality the state manages for them.

@jeremiah @wjmaggos This is why I don't categorize myself... there's a lot in me that can be categorized as Dem, Repub, Lib, Object, et. al... not trying to be complicated, but I'm just being me

@sirphenom @wjmaggos I do (or don't) subscribe for pragmatic reasons, not tribal ones.

I think, within reason, one should stand and be counted on issues and topics, while simultaneously disowning partisanship.

Committed partisans have all of the intellectual integrity of tribal handegg fans. :-)

@jeremiah @sirphenom I agree on the uselessness of most categories, but I do tend to fall into some kind of anti-authoritarian left range. Haidt did some actual research showing a worldwide split for most people, using these values questions:

@jeremiah I guess I don't get it as a philosophy. Beyond appreciating the benefits I enjoy living in an advanced society, I think we're all social creatures. So I get focused on how the most of us can do that most enjoyably. Maybe smaller countries, smaller governments, more federated...but maybe not. I just think our impacts on each other are unavoidable, so let's work out that reality ASAP. That's my perspective anyway.

@wjmaggos I think it's by individual. Whether the global population is 9 billion or 9 -- I still want to be left the hell alone, get off my lawn, and don't bother me about my guns.

That's a libertarian attitude that is reflected in a lot of other places, but it is _philosophically_ libertarian.

Maybe we could also use the word Jeffersonian as a descriptor of a state whose job is to protect life, liberty, and property, and maintain the bare minimum infrastructure for the same.

@wjmaggos I’ve come to the conclusion that right libertarians are pretty much useless. They start from the point of not wanting to pay tax and just make stuff up from there. They also have little to know understanding of the classical thinkers they constantly tout

@LibertyPaulM I've actually found the less militant types to be the largest group of open minded appreciators of a good joke and conversations full of critical thinking. As regards making actual political progress, I agree. But I guess that's to be expected.

I'm a libertarian. I agree with this point completely, and am frustrated by it frequently.
GPL + CC + decentralization = tools to build modern freedom

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